Thank you Jeff for the explanation.  It makes a little better sense.  :-)

Mike... 

>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Dinsmore, Jeff [mailto:Jeff.Dinsmore@[...].org] 
>  Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:37 AM
>  To: Bahr, Michael; Enrico Herzke; activetcl@[...].com
>  Cc: activetcl@[...].com
>  Subject: RE: [Activetcl] split doing two different things
>  
>  Gentlemen, the Tcl community has long been regarded as 
>  helpful AND friendly...
>  
>  
>  A trivial example of "why" would be a CSV file (although we 
>  don't usually want to handle a CSV by blindly splitting on 
>  commas). Excel produces CSV output without commas to 
>  terminate each line. Any program that's going to read CSV has 
>  to recognize this. Tcl's split behaves exactly the same way. 
>  The split character is handled as a separator, not a terminator.
>  
>  Example - a three, three row CSV spreadsheet generated by Excel:
>  1a,1b,
>  2a,2b,2c
>  ,3b,
>  
>  In this case, we need to interpret the trailing comma as 
>  indicative of the third, but perhaps empty, field in order to 
>  keep the number of columns consistent.
>  
>  
>  From perldoc.perl.org SPLIT documentation:
>  "Splits the string EXPR into a list of strings and returns 
>  that list. By default, empty leading fields are preserved, 
>  and empty trailing ones are deleted. (If all fields are 
>  empty, they are considered to be trailing.)"
>  
>  
>  This sounds like the possible existence of a traling, 
>  zero-length field is recognized, but disregarded by default. 
>  Is there a switch to tell it that the final field should be 
>  preserved? I've not used Perl, but this (apparently) default 
>  behavior would require extra gyrations if your data source 
>  assumed Tcl's (or Excel's) model rather than Perl's.
>  
>  Ultimately, whether a trailing separator ought to imply an 
>  empty field or not is entirely dependent on the data you're 
>  parsing. We just have to, as always, understand our data and 
>  how our chosen tool behaves.
>  
>  I can see both behaviors being "better", easier, or more 
>  useful in certain situations - just like lots of other 
>  differences. Neither right nor wrong - just different based 
>  on your point of view.
>  
>  Thanks,
>  
>  Jeff Dinsmore
>  Interfaces
>  Ridgeview Medical Center
>  
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: activetcl-bounces@[...].com 
>  [mailto:activetcl-bounces@[...].com] On Behalf 
>  Of Bahr, Michael
>  Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:48 AM
>  To: Enrico Herzke; activetcl@[...].com
>  Cc: activetcl@[...].com
>  Subject: Re: [Activetcl] split doing two different things
>  
>  Thank you for that--I already knew it.  Just because the FM 
>  says so does not make it right.  For us who program in 
>  multiple languages split behaves one way and then behaves 
>  another way in Tcl.  It is frustrating to come to Tcl and 
>  find that, in this case, split adds an empty string to the 
>  list.  What is the purpose of that empty string?  Why do some 
>  of the other languages not show it?  Is it an oversight on 
>  Tcl's part?  In the example there are 8 delimiters and split 
>  will capture the characters to the left of the delimiter up 
>  to the previous delimiter or the start of the line.  So as 
>  the string is shrinking and the delimiters are gone what is 
>  left?  This has bugged me for over 6 years in Tcl.
>  
>  Mike...
>  
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: activetcl-bounces@[...].com
>  > [mailto:activetcl-bounces@[...].com] On Behalf Of 
>  > Enrico Herzke
>  > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:08 AM
>  > To: activetcl@[...].com
>  > Cc: activetcl@[...].com
>  > Subject: Re: [Activetcl] split doing two different things
>  > 
>  > RTFM:
>  > 
>  > NAME
>  > split - Split a string into a proper Tcl list SYNOPSIS split string 
>  > ?splitChars?
>  > DESCRIPTION
>  > Returns a list created by splitting string at each 
>  character that is 
>  > in the splitChars argument. Each element of the result list will 
>  > consist of the characters from string that lie between instances of 
>  > the characters in splitChars. Empty list elements will be 
>  generated if 
>  > string contains adjacent characters in splitChars, or if 
>  the first or 
>  > last character of string is in splitChars. If splitChars is 
>  an empty 
>  > string then each character of string becomes a separate 
>  element of the 
>  > result list. SplitChars defaults to the standard white-space 
>  > characters.
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Enrico
>  > 
>  > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>  > > Datum: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:32:26 -0400
>  > > Von: "Bahr, Michael" <mbahr@[...].gov>
>  > > An: "Flavio Salgueiro" <flavio.salgueiro@[...].com>, 
>  "Jeff Hobbs" 
>  > > <jeffh@[...].com>, "Gene Osteen" <gosteen@[...].com>
>  > > CC: activetcl@[...].com
>  > > Betreff: Re: [Activetcl] split doing two different things
>  > 
>  > > Is the empty string normal behavior??  I think Gene is
>  > visualizing the
>  > > string:
>  > > 
>  > > 314185798Ã?59858Ã?2004-11-19Ã?2004-11-19 23:08:00Ã? KPFS-IN 
>  > > NCAL-INTERFACEÃ?121314Ã?121314Ã?121314Ã?
>  > > 
>  > > as this
>  > > 314185798Ã?
>  > > 59858Ã?
>  > > 2004-11-19Ã?
>  > > 2004-11-19 23:08:00Ã?
>  > >  KPFS-IN NCAL-INTERFACEÃ?
>  > > 121314Ã?
>  > > 121314Ã?
>  > > 121314Ã?
>  > > 
>  > > So there are 8 strings and 8 delimiters
>  > > 
>  > > Now Perl has been around for over 30 years and I have been
>  > programming
>  > > in Perl for over 13 years and use it as a standard for
>  > these things.  
>  > > Perl's split returns 8 strings as expected as above.  So
>  > can someone
>  > > please explain why Tcl's split "sees" an empty string at 
>  the end of 
>  > > the line?  I do not think this is normal behavior.
>  > > 
>  > > Perl code:
>  > > $s = '314185798Ã?59858Ã?2004-11-19Ã?2004-11-19 23:08:00Ã? KPFS-IN 
>  > > NCAL-INTERFACEÃ?121314Ã?121314Ã?121314Ã?';
>  > > @items = split (/Ã?/, $s);
>  > > foreach $item (@items) { print "$item\n"; } $size = 
>  scalar(@items); 
>  > > print "Size of list = $size\n";
>  > > 
>  > > Mike...
>  > > 
>  > > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > > From: activetcl-bounces@[...].com
>  > > > [mailto:activetcl-bounces@[...].com] On 
>  Behalf Of 
>  > > > Flavio Salgueiro
>  > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:15 AM
>  > > > To: Jeff Hobbs; Gene Osteen
>  > > > Cc: activetcl@[...].com
>  > > > Subject: Re: [Activetcl] split doing two different things
>  > > > 
>  > > > I think that the extra field he is seeing is due to the normal 
>  > > > behavior of split. The trailing Ã? at the end of the list
>  > will give
>  > > > you an empty string.
>  > > > My suggestion is to use 'string trim $myString Ã?' to get
>  > rid of the
>  > > > trailing delimiter which is giving the extra blank field
>  > at the end. 
>  > > > You would get the same result if you tried 'llength 
>  [split a: :]' 
>  > > > this would result in a count of two because split gives
>  > you "a and
>  > > > {}" not just "a".
>  > > > 
>  > > > Cheers,
>  > > > 
>  > > > Flavio
>  > > > 
>  > > > @-> -----Original Message-----
>  > > > @-> From: activetcl-bounces@[...].com
>  > > > [mailto:activetcl- @-> bounces@[...].com]
>  > On Behalf
>  > > > Of Jeff Hobbs @-> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:10 PM
>  > @-> To: Gene
>  > > > Osteen @-> Cc: activetcl@[...].com
>  > > > @-> Subject: Re: [Activetcl] split doing two different 
>  things @-> 
>  > > > @-> Gene Osteen wrote:
>  > > > @-> >             I use the split command to tell me how many 
>  > > > fields are in
>  > > > @-> a
>  > > > @-> > line of text sent to me. The data is character
>  > delimited with
>  > > > a Ã? as @-> the @-> > delimiter. Each line of text ends 
>  with a Ã?. 
>  > > > Normally if I do a split I @-> > get one more list element than 
>  > > > there are fields. I have a case where @-> > this is not
>  > happening. I
>  > > > am including 2 examples. The first is not @-> > working
>  > as expected
>  > > > the line of data is:
>  > > > @-> >
>  > > > @-> > 314185798Ã?59858Ã?2004-11-19Ã?2004-11-19 23:08:00Ã?
>  > KPFS-IN @-> >
>  > > > NCAL-INTERFACEÃ?121314Ã?121314Ã?121314Ã?
>  > > > @-> >
>  > > > @-> > For some reason the list length here is 8 which 
>  is also the 
>  > > > number of @-> Ã?s @-> > in the line.
>  > > > @->
>  > > > @-> I don't have the same issue, getting the expected correct 
>  > > > results with @-> 8.4.18 and 8.5.2:
>  > > > @->
>  > > > @-> (Tcl) 49 % set str {314185798Ã?59858Ã?2004-11-19Ã?2004-11-19
>  > > > 23:08:00Ã? @-> KPFS-IN NCAL-INTERFACEÃ?121314Ã?121314Ã?121314Ã?}
>  > > > @-> 314185798Ã?59858Ã?2004-11-19Ã?2004-11-19 23:08:00Ã? KPFS-IN @-> 
>  > > > NCAL-INTERFACEÃ?121314Ã?121314Ã?121314Ã?
>  > > > @-> (Tcl) 50 % regexp -all Ã? $str
>  > > > @-> 8
>  > > > @-> (Tcl) 51 % llength [split $str Ã?] @-> 9 @-> (Tcl) 
>  52 % split 
>  > > > $str Ã? @-> 314185798 59858 2004-11-19 {2004-11-19 23:08:00} { 
>  > > > KPFS-IN @-> NCAL-INTERFACE} 121314 121314 121314 {} @->
>  > @-> Jeff @->
>  > > > _______________________________________________
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