O
>  The crash is happening in the destructor of the help controller when the
>  other top level windows of the app have already been deleted.  You can
>  workaround the problem by forcing the help controller to do its cleanup
>  before the app's main frame is destroyed.  In my sample I just added a
>  EVT_CLOSE event handler to the frame that looks like this:
> 
>       def OnCloseWindow(self, evt):
>           del self.help
>           evt.Skip()

YES! it turns out I didn't even need to specify a parent.  By calling
s.help = piposdoc.doc()
form the controller of my 1st frame, then

 def dologout(s,event):
            del s.help
            s.f.Close(True)
            s.f.Destroy()
            return

No seg fault And its still modal.
THANK YOU MUCH and much thanks to Andrea for putting up with me.
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