Thanks for replying so I can understand your intentions.

>  and we provided the facilities for a 3 day Zope 3 sprint and paid for
>  Jim Fulton to fly to Berlin to coach this session and give a 2 talks.
> 
>  that unfortunately wasn't free. but we have no regrets.
> 
>  in addition we have released free documentation in the past, this ZopeMag
>  issue includes a free article, not to mention written Open Source
>  software. i find your comment to be very unfair.

I did not know this.  This is valuable info.
Thank you for contributing this way.
BTW-I have suggested that we start giving credit on zope.org's homepage to
groups that support Z3 sprints.  We need more sprints to get Z3 out faster.

>  > If Beehive really wants to get into newsletter publishing,
>  Beehive should
>  > offer this for free and have advertisers pay for it.  After all - we are
>  > Zope users (OPEN SOURCE) with no pockets, NOT Oracle users with deep
>  > pockets.
>  i suggest you make your model work and compete with us who
>  can provide a better resource for the community.

I am sorry...I dont think you are doing THIS for the overall community.
You are providing resources for the "PAYING COMMUNITY".
If you are doing this for the community, why aren't you part of the zope-web
discussions and offering to help with community projects rather than
developing your own?
Beehive would be a welcomed contributor to these efforts.

I am a NEW community advocate that would like to see more resources pooled
together, not off into corporate corners.  Beehive could become a leader in
this effort if you decide it is worthwhile.  Maybe you dont think the
"community model" works well enough?

>  what i truly don't understand is why some people within the
>  community refuse to recognize that everbody in the community
>  makes different types of contributions. we are not forcing
>  anybody to do anything but are trying to provide options.

Again, I am in the mode that the community still needs "donated"
contributions to grow.
Yes-Beehive donates resources to the community, but this isnt one of them.
Yes-Beehive has the right to cover its cost(not donate). Showing how
developers can make money with Zope is the most important aspect of building
the development community.
Yes-Beehive seems to be building an admirable business model to make money
with Zope.
I want to understand where Beehive fits in and give credit where credit is
due.

I started using Zope because of low cost of entry to do OO web apps with
Python. And I embraced the idealism that the Zope community was bent on
keeping things FREE for developers.
I am trying to protect this ideal situation.

>  its likely that some of our efforts have brought the community
>  new users. isn't that a good thing?
If they are end users, I dont care.  We all do that.  Attracting Zope
development users that contribute, err donate, is a good thing.  Thank you.

You still havent answered how the money is being used.  And you dont have to
answer.  My perspective is that the zope community is not for profit.  We
all suuport each other's efforts to charge for our development to end users,
not necessarily charging each other.
Maybe if you disclosed that 100% of the procedes will go to Z3 development
and paying for more sprints then the community benefit would be clearer and
easier to support.

Is it about the money?  Yes, it is about the money.  I would not have
explored Zope if I had to pay for it.
I just want to understand if Beehive is trying to monetize the Zope
community prematurely.
Of course if you offer the mag to me for free, I will shut-up.  ;)

-Trevor



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